Emailer Server Required To Send Website Emails?

twest

I see in the docs it says an email role needs to be assigned in order for websites to send mail/phpmail, like lost-password forms, etc... How can we allow websites to send basic phpmail without setting up an email server? I don't want to offer email services, and also don't want to setup smtp on every site. Why can't phpmail be allowed to just run on its own? It doesn't need anything else to run.

mike

twest unfortunately @riopardo is correct. if not blocked your transactional emails will probably be marked as spam. Your emails will reach google but not microsoft 🙂

if you insist, you need a way to limit and inspect php mail flowing out from your server. i believe enhance cannot do this yet.

twest it's unrealistic to manually setup SMTP for thousands of client sites.

thousands of client sites sending php mail unmonitored 🫠

twest Why can't phpmail be allowed to just run on its own? It doesn't need anything else to run.

It needs an mta to move the email.

Adam

Enhance doesn't install an MTA by default. Installing the email role will do this and will make it possible to use PHP mail() with no further configuration necessary. You don't need to offer email facilities to your customers, you can limit that on a package level.

twest

Adam I went ahead and added the email role to my control panel server, assigned that role to my hosting website, not working. I tried added the email role to my app/db server the site is hosted on and also not working. Am I missing a step? I did have Smart Host config for Amazon ses, but I disabled that to test and still not working.

Getting this generic error from email testing tool: Could not instantiate mail function.

Adam

twest Adam I went ahead and added the email role to my control panel server, assigned that role to my hosting website, not working. I tried added the email role to my app/db server the site is hosted on and also not working. Am I missing a step? I did have Smart Host config for Amazon ses, but I disabled that to test and still not working.

It sounds like you've done everything right and the PHP mail() function should just work. Can you try a test email from SSH?

echo test | sendmail adam@enhance.com

What is the output?

riopardo

Email today without authenticated SMTP will be blocked everywhere, forget PHP mail()!

twest

riopardo that's simply not true, and it's unrealistic to manually setup SMTP for thousands of client sites.

twest

Adam tried that test and getting this:

Command 'sendmail' not found, but can be installed with:
apt install lsb-invalid-mta # version 11.1.0ubuntu4, or
apt install exim4-daemon-heavy # version 4.95-4ubuntu2.4
apt install exim4-daemon-light # version 4.95-4ubuntu2.4
apt install postfix # version 3.6.4-1ubuntu1.1
apt install courier-mta # version 1.0.16-3build3
apt install dma # version 0.13-1build1
apt install esmtp-run # version 1.2-18
apt install masqmail # version 0.3.4-1build1
apt install msmtp-mta # version 1.8.16-1
apt install nullmailer # version 1:2.2-3build1
apt install opensmtpd # version 6.8.0p2-4build1
apt install sendmail-bin # version 8.15.2-22ubuntu3
apt install ssmtp # version 2.64-10

twest

mike again, that's just factually incorrect. PHP mail reaches MS's live mail and Gmail and every other free mail provider just fine. They usually go to the spam box due to lack of authentication, but they do make it, no blocks.

In cpanel there's limiters to prevent abuse so sites/accounts can only send x per hour and per day. We set those pretty low like 20 per hour and 300/day to prevent abuse, and for clients that need bulk mail there's SMTP - usually for ecomm sites. For all other, they generally just need it available for basics like lost password forms.

Adam

Sorry I meant from the SSH environment for the website which is having trouble sending. You can either add a key/pass under "developer tools" in the UI, or su from root to the website user.

twest

Adam getting this in ssh (port 25 is open):
sendmail: Cannot open mail:25

Adam

That's interesting, it suggests that PHP mail() wasn't configured. This should have happened when you assigned the website to your newly installed email role. Were there any errors? You might need to raise a support ticket for this one as it's not normal behaviour.

twest

Adam no errors, I tested removing the role from the server and adding it back on, reassigning the role to the test site, running the test mail again whiled su'd in their user, same result. I will submit ticket and see what happens 🙂

twest

For anyone curious about this issue, phpmail does work once you have an email role installed/assigned, but there's some bug that requires restarting the php container of the websites to get phpmail to work. Now my sites are sending phpmail fine, which are indeed landing in the spam folder of my hotmail as I'd expect 🙂

prismweb

The issue that prevents us from using Enhance fully is that we offer lots of hosting to clients that use outsourced email that we do not control, and so an email role is not assigned to their account. However they still need to use phpmail functions, and without mail role phpmail does not work. So we have kept 5,000+ sites on Cpanel and only moved like 40 over to our Enhance install. This is the only thing preventing us from ditching cpanel fully.

twest

prismweb dude, we figured it out lol... You don't have to assign email role to customers, just assign the role to the server. I'm the same way, I don't mix hosting and email (I have a separate dedicated email node just for email). The fix Adam figured out for me is acceptable and simple, just enable the Email role to any hosting server, you can then mark the Email role on that server as "disable placement" so no sites will be able to even use the role or be assigned it. It's just required to be assigned to the server so the server can send phpmail... I don't know if you need to do the "restart php container" on every site you add to that server, it might just be needed for any sites "that's added AFTER the email role is enabled for the server". I think once you enable the email role on the server (then disable placement) then any new sites you add to that server will have the phpmail capability available without having to restart the php container.

I'm in similar boat about waiting to migrate a fleet of cPanel's. Except for me I'm more interested in some other features coming down that I need to be really comfortable with it, like next months Roadmap items to have a second control panel available in case the primary dies. I want the Apache config capability as well, because I'm not sure how well Enhance can handle some of my bigger sites getting millions of pageviews per day, pretty sure Apache will need to be tweaked for that. It's not absolutely needed, but I'd be more comfortable with some ability to see resource consumption on accounts as well, since the current availability is really poor, if a site is going ape on the database and killing CPU, it will be hard to track down which account is responsible. That's dangerous situation for mass hosting.

Adam

prismweb The issue that prevents us from using Enhance fully is that we offer lots of hosting to clients that use outsourced email that we do not control, and so an email role is not assigned to their account. However they still need to use phpmail functions, and without mail role phpmail does not work. So we have kept 5,000+ sites on Cpanel and only moved like 40 over to our Enhance install. This is the only thing preventing us from ditching cpanel fully.

PHP can't send messages without an MTA so you will always need this element of the email role; the same must be true on cPanel. Do you disable the IMAP and POP servers there? We have a big overhaul of the mail system coming in the new year at which point it will be possible to do something similar on Enhance.

mendozal

I suppose this would be awful for the server's IP reputation (with sites potentially sending spam). But considering you have a dedicated email node, the application server's IP wouldn't be so important in this regard.

@Adam Wouldn't sites sending email using phpmail also go through the Smart Host?

Adam

mendozal @Adam Wouldn't sites sending email using phpmail also go through the Smart Host?

Sites using PHP mail() will relay through the designated mail server for that website and that in turn will obey any configured smart host.

mendozal

Adam That's interesting.. Then it's just a matter of not using your main email server as the email role for those sites.

twest

mendozal I have the Smart Host email settings setup to use SMTP via my dedicated email node. I'm fine with all phpmail getting passed through to that as my main node has excellent IP reputation from years of use, and it has limits built in to prevent abuse from over-sending... I expect hosting accounts to only ever use phpmail in basic account function scenarios = lost password form pretty much. For clients needing excellent delivery for contact forms or other mass-email situations, we would setup SMTP on their site with authentication.

Unrelated note, I couldn't get the Smart Host settings to work with Amazon SES, anyone had luck with that? It's fine to use my dedicated mail server's SMTP service, but I thought Amazon SES would be better.